1 00:00:02,500 --> 00:00:07,240 If serial killers could speak from beyond the grave, would they be willing 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:08,240 talk to us? 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:10,520 My name is Julie McDonald. 4 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:12,260 I'm an investigative journalist. 5 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,620 And I'm Bobby Marcheso, an ex -cop and psychic medium. 6 00:00:16,900 --> 00:00:21,380 And together, we aim to have a conversation with a serial killer. 7 00:00:49,290 --> 00:00:52,510 This woman was clearly a sociopath. 8 00:00:53,150 --> 00:00:55,970 Without conscience and money was her God. 9 00:00:56,230 --> 00:00:58,510 Look at this. Look, look, look. Strong activity. 10 00:00:59,790 --> 00:01:00,790 What's in there? 11 00:01:00,930 --> 00:01:02,230 Just nasty stuff. 12 00:01:02,530 --> 00:01:06,590 She would poison, bludgeon, and sever their bodies. 13 00:01:07,110 --> 00:01:09,370 Oh, did you see that? Look at that. 65, 62. 14 00:01:09,910 --> 00:01:10,910 He's here. 15 00:01:15,370 --> 00:01:19,930 Val Gunness is thought to be one of America's most notorious female serial 16 00:01:19,930 --> 00:01:20,930 killers. 17 00:01:21,350 --> 00:01:27,150 She was a crazy bitch who killed a whole lot of people, men to be specific, for 18 00:01:27,150 --> 00:01:30,330 money, greed, and possibly revenge. 19 00:01:31,090 --> 00:01:35,810 Brutally taking the lives of more than 40 people, her hog farm became the scene 20 00:01:35,810 --> 00:01:41,110 of some of America's most gruesome killings. She would bring the men down 21 00:01:41,110 --> 00:01:44,330 this fruit cellar or basement, if you will. 22 00:01:44,970 --> 00:01:48,110 and there would dissect them piecemeal. 23 00:01:48,370 --> 00:01:53,290 Some believe that Belle died with her children in a fire at their farmhouse, 24 00:01:53,290 --> 00:01:57,650 to this day, most believe that she faked her death and fled La Porte with her 25 00:01:57,650 --> 00:01:58,650 reported fortune. 26 00:01:59,130 --> 00:02:03,230 Belle Gunness was one of our very first American serial killers. She was the 27 00:02:03,230 --> 00:02:08,389 original Black Widow. A psychopathic killer does not hesitate to even kill 28 00:02:08,389 --> 00:02:09,389 own children. 29 00:02:09,610 --> 00:02:13,390 Belle Gunness was a ferocious and formidable woman. 30 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,760 Described as money -hungry, she would use lonely hearts ads to lure rich, 31 00:02:18,980 --> 00:02:22,560 unsuspecting bachelors to her Indiana Hulk farm. 32 00:02:22,980 --> 00:02:28,860 There, she would poison their food, hack off their body parts, and bury their 33 00:02:28,860 --> 00:02:30,860 remains throughout her estate. 34 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:36,240 Our paranormal investigation will take us to La Porte, Indiana, where we'll 35 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,560 retrace Belle's murderous reign of terror. 36 00:02:38,820 --> 00:02:42,420 But what will this monster have to say from beyond the grave? 37 00:02:42,660 --> 00:02:45,420 Will she reveal the truth behind her savage murders? 38 00:02:45,780 --> 00:02:49,320 Or will she be as elusive in death as she was in life? 39 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,060 We aim to find out. 40 00:02:54,890 --> 00:02:59,510 In our attempt to communicate with the spirit of this gruesome, money -thirsty 41 00:02:59,510 --> 00:03:04,050 serial killer, this paranormal investigation will take us to the small, 42 00:03:04,050 --> 00:03:05,670 town of La Porte, Indiana. 43 00:03:06,310 --> 00:03:12,170 The hometown to Belle Gunness' sprawling hog farm, slaughterhouse, and the scene 44 00:03:12,170 --> 00:03:16,310 of up to 40 gruesome murders, including those of her children. 45 00:03:17,730 --> 00:03:21,770 We'll visit the tough private school where she sent her three children. 46 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:26,320 The antiques mall where she spent her victims' wealth to indulge the selfish 47 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:31,480 fantasies. And finally, we hold a séance at the very farm site that Gunness 48 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,680 brutally murdered, cut up and buried her victims. 49 00:03:35,140 --> 00:03:40,120 But in attempting to make contact with her evil spirit, which Belle Gunness 50 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:45,180 would we find? The family -loving, hard -working hog farmer or the relentless, 51 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,120 money -hungry black widow? 52 00:03:47,550 --> 00:03:52,150 We hope to find out as we attempt to communicate with this cunning killer in 53 00:03:52,150 --> 00:03:53,150 afterlife. 54 00:04:00,590 --> 00:04:03,150 Belle Gunness was born in 1859. 55 00:04:03,590 --> 00:04:08,470 Raised as Brynhild Storset, she lived in the small village of Selbu, Norway. 56 00:04:08,770 --> 00:04:13,670 As a child, her farming family were poor and life offered little in the way of 57 00:04:13,670 --> 00:04:14,670 luxury. 58 00:04:14,810 --> 00:04:18,750 As soon as she was old enough, Belle fled to begin a new life across the 59 00:04:18,750 --> 00:04:22,130 on the promising shores of the new world, America. 60 00:04:26,790 --> 00:04:31,190 Her criminal history really begins in Chicago. 61 00:04:31,570 --> 00:04:36,610 She married a guy by the name of Mads Sorensen, another Norwegian. 62 00:04:37,210 --> 00:04:43,130 And they had a candy shop there, which didn't do very well, but was very well 63 00:04:43,130 --> 00:04:44,130 insured. 64 00:04:44,580 --> 00:04:46,440 It mysteriously burned down. 65 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,760 After the store burned down, Belle Gunness gathered up a life insurance 66 00:04:50,940 --> 00:04:53,680 bought a plot of land in LaPorte, Indiana. 67 00:04:54,740 --> 00:04:59,960 And it was really at this point when she launched her criminal career in full 68 00:04:59,960 --> 00:05:00,960 throttle. 69 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:11,160 Belle's murderous reign began here in LaPorte, and so would our journey. 70 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,780 I arranged to meet La Porte historian Bruce Johnson in the hope that he may be 71 00:05:15,780 --> 00:05:19,560 able to paint a picture of what Belle was like in the early days. 72 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:28,400 She traded her home in Austin, Illinois for this farm here in La Porte. I 73 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,780 think she wanted to get out of the Chicago area because of all the... 74 00:05:32,170 --> 00:05:36,070 questioning that was going on with the death of the husband, her first husband. 75 00:05:36,250 --> 00:05:40,750 When her husband died mysteriously on the one day that his two life insurance 76 00:05:40,750 --> 00:05:44,930 policies overlapped, that made it very suspicious. 77 00:05:45,450 --> 00:05:49,650 The neighbors were suspicious, the doctors as well, and the relatives. 78 00:05:50,030 --> 00:05:53,450 Can you tell me what sort of place Laporte would have been when Belgunis 79 00:05:53,450 --> 00:05:54,450 here? 80 00:05:55,310 --> 00:05:58,710 Probably about the same size it is today. We're about 20 ,000 people. 81 00:05:58,930 --> 00:06:00,510 Hasn't changed much over... 82 00:06:02,119 --> 00:06:05,760 who was a manufacturing community, but mostly a farming community. 83 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,420 There were many immigrants who were coming here to start new lives. 84 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,880 So the children that lived with Bell when she was in LaPorte, were they 85 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,280 biologically her children or were they all adopted? Do we know that? 86 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,500 None of them were adopted that we can prove. 87 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:22,400 None of them she gave birth to. 88 00:06:23,570 --> 00:06:26,010 As far as I know, they were all foster children. 89 00:06:26,310 --> 00:06:30,270 I mean, to me, somebody who adopts lots of children, that tells you that that 90 00:06:30,270 --> 00:06:34,650 person might have a protective kind of matriarchal sort of side to them. And 91 00:06:34,650 --> 00:06:38,550 yet, as we know, she also had a very different side to her, which was as a 92 00:06:38,550 --> 00:06:41,970 murderess. So I'm just trying to imagine how those two went together. 93 00:06:42,810 --> 00:06:44,870 What bothers me the most is the children. 94 00:06:45,940 --> 00:06:51,000 how she could raise these children, especially Jenny Olsen. It's 16 years 95 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,700 raised this girl, and then to kill her. I just can't imagine what must be going 96 00:06:55,700 --> 00:06:56,700 through her mind. 97 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:01,980 To keep up an appearance of wealth and respectability, Bell sent her three 98 00:07:01,980 --> 00:07:07,140 foster children here to the once expensive and prestigious St. John's 99 00:07:07,340 --> 00:07:09,460 Look at this. Look at this. What a strong activity. 100 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,320 It's here that our paranormal investigation for the spirit of Bell 101 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:15,459 We'll begin. 102 00:07:15,460 --> 00:07:19,900 Jesus Christ, I just saw a figure walking up through there. 103 00:07:21,700 --> 00:07:27,400 Belle Gunness is believed to have brutally murdered up to 40 people in the 104 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:34,000 1890s, burying their butchered remains across her 50 -acre hog farm in La 105 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:35,000 Indiana. 106 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:40,080 When Belle moved to La Porte, it seemed like she established herself as a woman 107 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:41,800 of considerable means. 108 00:07:42,020 --> 00:07:48,960 She sent her children to school and to church, and she seemed to be living 109 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:50,200 a pretty sumptuous life. 110 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:56,720 She was a pig farmer. She hired farmhands out to help her do crops, and 111 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:01,380 would go and talk to the townspeople and was very, you know, part of the 112 00:08:01,380 --> 00:08:06,800 community. In 1902, Belle Sorensen married for the second time a local 113 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:12,280 named Peter Gunness, who was a man of some influence and owned some property 114 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:13,280 La Porte, Indiana. 115 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,440 However, Gunness was not long for this world. 116 00:08:18,980 --> 00:08:24,540 Our search for the spirit of this formidable monster has brought us here 117 00:08:24,540 --> 00:08:27,120 notoriously haunted St. John's School. 118 00:08:27,900 --> 00:08:32,480 Belle disguised her murderous intentions and presented herself as a loving 119 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,440 mother and pillar of the community. 120 00:08:34,820 --> 00:08:38,860 This school was the perfect location to search for paranormal evidence 121 00:08:38,860 --> 00:08:41,900 surrounding Belle and her murdered children. 122 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:47,160 So Bobby, this is the first stop on our paranormal tour. It's St. John's 123 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:48,139 Lutheran School. 124 00:08:48,140 --> 00:08:49,360 As you can see, it's abandoned. 125 00:08:49,740 --> 00:08:50,479 It's pretty creepy. 126 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,520 It does, doesn't it? People in this neighborhood tend to avoid the building, 127 00:08:53,620 --> 00:08:56,760 they tell us. They feel that it's probably haunted. 128 00:08:57,060 --> 00:09:00,940 The reason that it's interesting for us is because Belle Gunness sent her 129 00:09:00,940 --> 00:09:02,080 children here to school. 130 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:06,320 Hopefully this location is going to be the start of being able to keep together 131 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:07,620 the Belle Gunness story. 132 00:09:08,780 --> 00:09:13,220 Built in 1890, St John's School was only two miles from the Gunners' household 133 00:09:13,220 --> 00:09:18,260 and was famous for educating the children of foreign families who'd moved 134 00:09:18,260 --> 00:09:24,020 Laporte, a tough, regimented private school. St John's believed in discipline 135 00:09:24,020 --> 00:09:25,020 all costs. 136 00:09:25,140 --> 00:09:30,340 As the Indiana Ghost Trackers arrived to set up for the investigation, Bobby 137 00:09:30,340 --> 00:09:35,180 took the chance to explore this huge four -story building before nightfall. 138 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:09,840 Hello? What was that? 139 00:10:10,100 --> 00:10:11,100 I don't have a light. 140 00:10:12,540 --> 00:10:13,540 Crawl space. 141 00:10:14,500 --> 00:10:16,240 There's somebody standing over there. 142 00:10:17,460 --> 00:10:18,460 Hello? 143 00:10:19,540 --> 00:10:20,920 But did you see that mist? 144 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:24,320 That wasn't my breath. 145 00:10:26,460 --> 00:10:27,520 That's usually energy. 146 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:38,060 With Bobby allegedly already sensing some activity, we were ready to search 147 00:10:38,060 --> 00:10:39,620 the spirit of Belle Gunness. 148 00:10:42,380 --> 00:10:47,920 There's a few areas where I sensed some things, some energies and spirits, so I 149 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,260 kind of want to start in those areas. I'd like to go up on top, too, on the 150 00:10:51,260 --> 00:10:53,260 third floor and check that out. 151 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,020 And then in the basement was a pretty good area. 152 00:10:57,340 --> 00:11:00,960 When I was walking around earlier, I saw a mist. 153 00:11:01,470 --> 00:11:03,990 which is often a sign of paranormal activity. 154 00:11:04,250 --> 00:11:08,750 And in your walk around, were you able to detect if there were any noises maybe 155 00:11:08,750 --> 00:11:12,310 that we should be looking at? I did sense a couple of different energies. 156 00:11:12,310 --> 00:11:16,710 an older female from the time period of the early 1900s. And then there was a 157 00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:22,590 young male energy that I also want to check out and see why he's here, why 158 00:11:22,590 --> 00:11:23,329 hanging around. 159 00:11:23,330 --> 00:11:24,330 Let's do it. 160 00:11:24,430 --> 00:11:27,870 Almost immediately, Bobby's equipment began to register something. 161 00:11:28,170 --> 00:11:29,530 Look at it, look at it, look at it, look at it, look at it. 162 00:11:29,730 --> 00:11:32,030 Strong, strong activity. 163 00:11:33,010 --> 00:11:37,570 Paranormal investigators contend that spiritual beings allegedly emit an 164 00:11:37,570 --> 00:11:41,630 electromagnetic field that registers on an EMF meter. 165 00:11:42,190 --> 00:11:45,170 Now what I want to do is try to get it intelligent. 166 00:11:45,470 --> 00:11:47,910 So let's back up for just a second, can you? 167 00:11:48,970 --> 00:11:53,910 So I want to see if you can activate this just again. From what I understand, 168 00:11:53,910 --> 00:11:57,790 you move your energy by this like you just did, it'll light this up. Can you 169 00:11:57,790 --> 00:11:58,790 that again for me? 170 00:12:01,810 --> 00:12:03,430 Can you just light this up for me? 171 00:12:06,630 --> 00:12:08,150 There's nothing that would set that off. 172 00:12:09,030 --> 00:12:12,890 There's a plug -in up here, but I mean, even on a plug -in, if that were active, 173 00:12:13,210 --> 00:12:16,250 it's not going to affect it from way down over here. But we know that none of 174 00:12:16,250 --> 00:12:17,850 this is picked up, so... Right. 175 00:12:18,700 --> 00:12:19,700 Who is this? 176 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,300 Here we go. Here we go. 177 00:12:28,900 --> 00:12:30,740 Can you tell me who you are? 178 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:36,240 What's your name? 179 00:12:38,580 --> 00:12:40,240 Why are you still here? 180 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,080 Can you stop lighting these for me? 181 00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:47,680 Can you... 182 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:49,620 Just stop lighting there. Thank you. 183 00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:56,600 Generally, as you're trying to manifest, you can affect the temperature. 184 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,680 Make this start going into the 60s. Make it very cold and show your presence. 185 00:13:06,420 --> 00:13:09,460 Oh, did you see that? Look at it. 65, 62, 60. 186 00:13:10,460 --> 00:13:12,060 There we go. Keep doing that. 187 00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:15,900 52. It's all over the place. 188 00:13:16,540 --> 00:13:18,280 Keep doing that. Can you keep doing that? 189 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:20,200 Can you tell me who you are? 190 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:24,120 58? 191 00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:29,840 Who are you? 192 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,260 Can you just let me know who it is that's here? 193 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,260 Can you make some kind of a noise in here or some kind of a bang or not? 194 00:13:44,220 --> 00:13:45,220 Hang on just a second. 195 00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:48,440 I'm sensing somebody around me now, though. 196 00:13:48,940 --> 00:13:53,080 Like right here over my left side. 197 00:13:54,020 --> 00:13:55,020 He's a big guy. 198 00:13:55,420 --> 00:13:57,140 Is there somebody in here with us? 199 00:13:59,820 --> 00:14:01,140 Can you make that noise again? 200 00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:04,800 Tell me that you're here. 201 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:12,660 Did you hear that? Yeah, it did sort of sound like a knock on the wall, but I've 202 00:14:12,660 --> 00:14:14,560 heard it a couple of times. I don't know if... 203 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:16,720 This corner down here. 204 00:14:20,820 --> 00:14:22,500 Is it the window, do you think? I don't know. 205 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:25,160 Oh, 206 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:27,100 just over here, though. There you go. 207 00:14:30,340 --> 00:14:31,460 There's a lot of orbs there. 208 00:14:31,820 --> 00:14:36,400 Robbie captures what he thinks is the image of an orb in exactly the spot he 209 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:37,880 detecting the male presence. 210 00:14:38,100 --> 00:14:42,380 An orb is believed to be the initial manifestation of a developing spirit. 211 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,640 With all the evidence, Bobby is convinced that there is a male presence 212 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,600 room with us, but our search is for Bell, so we head further down into the 213 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,760 building to continue our investigation. 214 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:55,519 What's in there? 215 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:56,800 Just nasty stuff. 216 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:00,260 I don't even want to go in there. 217 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:01,920 Shall we head in there? 218 00:15:07,100 --> 00:15:08,100 Jesus Christ. 219 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,300 I saw a figure walking up through there. 220 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:18,800 Hello? 221 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:21,960 Hello? 222 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,800 I don't want to, but... I think you need to be careful there, Bobby. I don't 223 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:30,840 think that staircase is particularly safe. 224 00:15:32,860 --> 00:15:35,620 There's some nasty stuff down here. 225 00:15:42,860 --> 00:15:47,320 It's those, again, the only best way I can describe it, and I've come across 226 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:52,460 them before, that in these dark recesses, it's those 227 00:15:52,460 --> 00:15:56,100 golem -type creatures. 228 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,980 It's really strong over in this corner. 229 00:16:02,140 --> 00:16:05,720 It's just really making me uncomfortable, and I just kind of want 230 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:06,719 away from here. 231 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,960 Bobby was feeling some very nasty, dark energy down in the basement. 232 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,700 So we went back upstairs to rejoin the Indiana ghost trackers. Maybe they had 233 00:16:15,700 --> 00:16:17,460 experienced something similar here. 234 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:22,480 We've been getting a lot of stuff with the K2, and the temperature has been 235 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,640 dropping down. It's usually 75, and it's been dropping down in the 60s and the 236 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:27,640 50s. Okay. 237 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:32,640 What does this do, Rene, that you're holding here? This is another way to 238 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,220 measure any disturbance of electromagnetic field. 239 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,300 What would you expect that to do, Renee, if there was something you were 240 00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:43,760 interested in? A lot of times the needle will swing back and forth, and 241 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,880 sometimes it'll bounce up and down at once. 242 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,240 You want to come in here for a second, Mike? Sure. 243 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,000 My ears are ringing just as I came through that door. 244 00:16:55,300 --> 00:16:56,219 You getting something? 245 00:16:56,220 --> 00:16:59,780 Just as I came through that door, my ears started ringing really loud. Hang 246 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:02,520 hang on. We got this activity here. 247 00:17:03,820 --> 00:17:06,240 Is coordinating with this. Look at how it's vibrating. 248 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:07,640 Yeah. 249 00:17:09,020 --> 00:17:10,020 And now it's gone. 250 00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:13,599 Hang on a second. Over here. 251 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:18,560 Here it goes. 252 00:17:21,060 --> 00:17:22,800 Come on. Come back. Come back. Come back. Come back. 253 00:17:23,060 --> 00:17:24,060 Where are you? 254 00:17:24,220 --> 00:17:25,220 Where are you? 255 00:17:29,620 --> 00:17:30,620 It's over here. 256 00:17:32,060 --> 00:17:33,060 There we go. 257 00:17:34,830 --> 00:17:35,850 And there goes the compass. 258 00:17:39,170 --> 00:17:42,690 Okay, now we see that really bouncing up and down there, Rene. That's not your 259 00:17:42,690 --> 00:17:46,790 hand. No, that's not. We've got four or five instruments, and they're all 260 00:17:46,790 --> 00:17:51,650 telling us, well, they're all trying to explain something to us, so in a sense, 261 00:17:51,810 --> 00:17:53,970 there's got to be something going on in here. There's something going on in 262 00:17:53,970 --> 00:17:57,810 here. What is the presence of Bell that the instruments were picking up? 263 00:17:58,030 --> 00:18:01,810 We had lots of equipment doing lots of... 264 00:18:02,350 --> 00:18:07,250 unexplainable things, and Bob was very much convinced that there was an energy, 265 00:18:07,410 --> 00:18:09,110 something following us around. 266 00:18:09,690 --> 00:18:13,870 So the school itself was a little bit disappointing for me. I thought it was 267 00:18:13,870 --> 00:18:19,730 interesting, but it didn't feel to me like a place where you're wandering 268 00:18:19,730 --> 00:18:24,770 in history, desperate to reach out and touch. It didn't speak to me in that 269 00:18:25,030 --> 00:18:29,750 The calm and happy domestic life that Belle was building for herself in La 270 00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:30,810 didn't last long. 271 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:37,340 One day, her daughter, Jenny Olsen, came downstairs to find her mother screaming 272 00:18:37,340 --> 00:18:43,380 horribly because a meat grinder had fallen on top of Peter Gunness' head and 273 00:18:43,380 --> 00:18:49,040 split it open. When he died, I believe there was an insurance policy, and she 274 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,620 scored again another death and more money. 275 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,800 Bill realized that there was good money in this. 276 00:18:56,460 --> 00:19:00,540 Chances of apprehension were very minimal. By placing lonely hardsats in 277 00:19:00,540 --> 00:19:05,200 newspapers, Belle began luring single, wealthy men to her hog farm. 278 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,980 Come to La Porte, bring all your money, and we can start an amazing life 279 00:19:09,980 --> 00:19:11,180 together forever. 280 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:16,940 The number of victims started to rise, and each new victim brought Belle 281 00:19:16,940 --> 00:19:18,200 increased wealth. 282 00:19:23,980 --> 00:19:28,640 With the evil spirit of Belle remaining elusive, I arranged for Bobby and I to 283 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,520 meet someone I hoped would help further our journey. 284 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,640 This is Marcus Griffin's house. 285 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:40,020 He's a La Porte local, has lived here for a long time, and he's very much 286 00:19:40,020 --> 00:19:44,140 immersed in the legend that has become Belle Gunness. I think he's going to be 287 00:19:44,140 --> 00:19:48,640 very interesting for us to talk to, because he's going to be able to explain 288 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,520 little bit about that middle part of her life. 289 00:19:50,780 --> 00:19:52,100 At this point, shoot him ass. 290 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:57,920 quite a large fortune in her day's standards but actually behind closed 291 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,700 yeah she had already killed several people right so i think he's going to be 292 00:20:02,700 --> 00:20:08,040 able to help us to understand that point in her life well if we're talking to 293 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:09,040 him let's go okay 294 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:15,620 It seems very unusual to think of a woman in that time having such a taste 295 00:20:15,620 --> 00:20:18,440 murder. Where do you think she developed that from? 296 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:25,100 I'd say that she was money hungry first and murder was just the means to an end 297 00:20:25,100 --> 00:20:28,580 and she developed a taste for it. What interests me is that this went on for 298 00:20:28,580 --> 00:20:31,560 quite some time and nobody seemed to notice. Why do you think that was? 299 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,340 I think people did notice. 300 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:36,380 And I think it was increasing. 301 00:20:37,020 --> 00:20:43,100 But, again, at that time period, they might not be as apt to stick their nose 302 00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:46,680 other people's business. It seems like the time that we're talking about now 303 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:51,840 pretty much the apex of her murderous career, the double life that we've 304 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,860 about. What do you think started that decline? 305 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,240 I think she possibly started realizing she was running out of time, at least in 306 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,680 the report, that people were becoming more and more and more suspicious of 307 00:21:04,740 --> 00:21:07,120 Her lies weren't working anymore. Her lies weren't working anymore, correct. 308 00:21:07,420 --> 00:21:13,580 I want to talk about the paranormal activity surrounding Belle Gunness. 309 00:21:13,580 --> 00:21:16,600 don't think you can have that kind of bloody rain. 310 00:21:17,420 --> 00:21:22,100 massacre take place in an area where it doesn't leave behind some kind of a 311 00:21:22,100 --> 00:21:24,140 fingerprint, whatever that fingerprint may be. 312 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,060 So we've had a chance to investigate the St. John's School. 313 00:21:28,340 --> 00:21:33,100 Oh, wonderful. Very interesting. And I guess from here on out, we're looking, 314 00:21:33,180 --> 00:21:38,880 where else do you think we could go that could possibly evoke? 315 00:21:39,180 --> 00:21:43,100 Her spirit. I guess anywhere that she would probably frequent. Her favorite, I 316 00:21:43,100 --> 00:21:46,060 know there was a favorite store that she liked to go to. 317 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,260 I believe it's called currently It's a Wonderful Life. 318 00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:52,940 She'd spend her money there, her blood money. The best word to describe is 319 00:21:52,940 --> 00:21:55,320 darkness. There is a darkness to that property. 320 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:01,580 With this insight, we traveled to the It's a Wonderful Life mall, a store in 321 00:22:01,580 --> 00:22:05,280 which Belle would have spent many happy hours shopping with her blood money. 322 00:22:05,870 --> 00:22:10,530 Would this investigation make contact with the evil spirit of Belle Gunness? 323 00:22:10,770 --> 00:22:12,210 Are you Belle Gunness? 324 00:22:12,770 --> 00:22:14,730 Yes. She's here. 325 00:22:16,230 --> 00:22:21,270 The St. John's School had clearly been a haunted building, but seemingly not by 326 00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:25,590 Belle Gunness. If we were going to communicate with this cold -hearted 327 00:22:25,790 --> 00:22:30,950 we needed to move our investigation closer to a place Belle would want to 328 00:22:30,950 --> 00:22:32,030 in the afterlife. 329 00:22:32,530 --> 00:22:36,370 She would write some lovely letters about how, you know, how much she loves 330 00:22:36,370 --> 00:22:38,750 them, and please come down, sell all you have. 331 00:22:39,130 --> 00:22:44,530 She was writing eight to ten letters a day, and while she was writing these 332 00:22:44,530 --> 00:22:48,850 letters, she was also disposing of men who came to visit her and brought their 333 00:22:48,850 --> 00:22:49,850 cash with them. 334 00:22:50,210 --> 00:22:57,030 Belle would kill them through means of poison. Their remains would be tossed 335 00:22:57,030 --> 00:22:59,090 and buried into shallow graves. 336 00:22:59,610 --> 00:23:04,170 Truly a woman without a conscience, a human monster. 337 00:23:05,390 --> 00:23:10,550 We arrived at the ironically named It's a Wonderful Life mall to begin our 338 00:23:10,550 --> 00:23:12,270 second paranormal investigation. 339 00:23:18,470 --> 00:23:21,810 Pretty cool place. Yeah, it's quite nice, isn't it? The building hasn't 340 00:23:21,810 --> 00:23:26,050 all that much since Belle Gunness would have come here. So this building would 341 00:23:26,050 --> 00:23:27,050 have formed. 342 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,980 A hub, if you like, somewhere that people came to spend their money, and 343 00:23:30,980 --> 00:23:34,660 was one of those people. So I think it's going to be very important for us to 344 00:23:34,660 --> 00:23:36,080 have a thorough look around here. 345 00:23:36,340 --> 00:23:39,180 If we're going to get in touch with Bell, this would be a good place to do 346 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,660 The building has stood as a store serving the residents of La Porte for 347 00:23:45,660 --> 00:23:51,640 years. With a long history of ghostly activity, could one of these be the 348 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:52,740 of Bell Gunness? 349 00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:58,400 Residing here in the very place she lived out her dreams of wealth and 350 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:00,520 Hot tub. 351 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:02,920 This is a good room. 352 00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:11,920 Oh, god damn. Okay. 353 00:24:23,630 --> 00:24:25,690 So, George, this is the basement down here. 354 00:24:25,910 --> 00:24:28,970 It's a pretty big area, isn't it? Yes, it is. There's been some strange things 355 00:24:28,970 --> 00:24:32,250 that have gone on down in the basement. Describe some of them for me. 356 00:24:32,450 --> 00:24:39,070 We had a group in, and they were standing in the area beyond the 357 00:24:39,070 --> 00:24:45,170 one of the persons in the group saw a figure behind some of the cardboard 358 00:24:45,370 --> 00:24:48,130 Have you seen anything or had any of those experiences yourself? 359 00:24:48,370 --> 00:24:51,010 Not down here, but I did once up on the second floor. 360 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:55,040 Explain to me what happened in here. 361 00:24:55,380 --> 00:24:59,400 Several years ago, a customer was shopping in this room and looking at a 362 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,320 and he moved into the other room, and while he was in the other room, he heard 363 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,740 noise, and the table moved, he said, three or four feet. 364 00:25:07,940 --> 00:25:13,480 Wow. He came back in, frightened him so that he ran downstairs and left the mall 365 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:14,900 and said he'd never come back again. 366 00:25:15,260 --> 00:25:20,060 As night fell over La Porte, we prepared to investigate the antique small, 367 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,070 appropriately named It's a wonderful life. 368 00:25:23,370 --> 00:25:24,169 Let's just start. 369 00:25:24,170 --> 00:25:28,550 We have to start talking to him, communicating him, getting used to our 370 00:25:28,550 --> 00:25:29,550 and such. 371 00:25:32,010 --> 00:25:36,830 If there's anybody in this room, can you contact us and let us know that you're 372 00:25:36,830 --> 00:25:37,830 here? 373 00:25:39,430 --> 00:25:41,130 Is there anybody here with us? 374 00:25:46,450 --> 00:25:49,430 Just move something or make some kind of a noise. 375 00:25:54,190 --> 00:25:57,970 Watch the image I just had in my head when that siren went. Is that some of 376 00:25:57,970 --> 00:26:00,750 spirits that are around here? There's so many spirits that are around here. 377 00:26:02,070 --> 00:26:05,530 The minute that siren hit, they shrunk back from it. 378 00:26:06,690 --> 00:26:09,310 If there's somebody here with us, can you make some kind of a sound? 379 00:26:11,130 --> 00:26:12,370 Tell us that you're here. 380 00:26:16,350 --> 00:26:21,430 Can you speak into my tape recorder and tell me who you are? 381 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,400 Anybody else hear like a faint whispering there? 382 00:26:32,780 --> 00:26:33,780 She's here. 383 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:37,260 She? Belle. 384 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,140 Back over there in the corner watching. 385 00:26:42,620 --> 00:26:45,420 What confirms to you that it is Belle? 386 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,340 I tune into a certain energy when we're doing our investigations. 387 00:26:51,060 --> 00:26:52,720 And this matches... 388 00:26:54,010 --> 00:26:55,010 what I've had so far. 389 00:26:56,790 --> 00:26:57,830 She's just watching. 390 00:27:03,650 --> 00:27:04,650 Belle! 391 00:27:05,910 --> 00:27:07,330 I know you're here. 392 00:27:09,530 --> 00:27:12,250 Can you come out and talk to us? 393 00:27:14,790 --> 00:27:16,470 She's just staring, curiosity. 394 00:27:17,710 --> 00:27:19,710 She's quietly just staring, curious. 395 00:27:20,450 --> 00:27:21,630 Maybe we should just carry on. 396 00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:27,580 Just let her tag along, and if she decides to answer, if she can, we'll see 397 00:27:27,580 --> 00:27:28,580 she feels. Okay. 398 00:27:29,380 --> 00:27:34,360 Bobby wanted to investigate the energy that he had detected earlier down in the 399 00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:35,860 basement. Yeah. Feel better? 400 00:27:39,780 --> 00:27:40,780 Hello? 401 00:27:49,290 --> 00:27:53,610 Bobby believes that he's captured the impression of an orb on the stairs. 402 00:27:53,610 --> 00:27:56,290 this have been the spirit of Belle following us? 403 00:27:56,950 --> 00:27:58,430 Let's go down there. Okay. 404 00:28:01,490 --> 00:28:05,730 Some guy calling out to me that was over here. 405 00:28:07,590 --> 00:28:08,990 Some scared man. 406 00:28:09,850 --> 00:28:10,850 Scared man. 407 00:28:11,310 --> 00:28:12,710 I don't know what he's doing here. 408 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,160 George explained to me that there was a man who actually lived down here for 409 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:23,180 some time. The reason that I ask is I know that a paranormal group who came 410 00:28:23,180 --> 00:28:28,780 in this very part of the basement said that they saw a figure and they 411 00:28:28,780 --> 00:28:31,380 him as cowering behind the boxes. 412 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:34,500 That's pretty close. 413 00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:35,879 Pretty close. 414 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:37,520 I just don't know why he's so afraid. 415 00:28:39,180 --> 00:28:40,660 Do you want to go up to the shop floor? 416 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:41,459 Let's do. 417 00:28:41,460 --> 00:28:45,620 Belle Gunness is here, and we can talk to her, and the best place we're 418 00:28:45,620 --> 00:28:47,440 going to be able to do this is upstairs at your suggestion. 419 00:28:47,660 --> 00:28:48,940 I think so. You're right. 420 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:50,400 Okay. Let's go. 421 00:28:57,460 --> 00:29:01,020 This is the most uncomfortable part. This is where I was. 422 00:29:01,660 --> 00:29:04,700 Now that I feel it, this is the energy I was feeling when I was standing out 423 00:29:04,700 --> 00:29:09,000 there. Well, it's interesting you say that because I was wandering around here 424 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,220 earlier just having a look at everything about who we were going to be 425 00:29:12,220 --> 00:29:17,020 investigating. And I came to the staircase and the lights were on, but I 426 00:29:17,020 --> 00:29:20,220 want to go up there. I mean, it's nothing more complicated than that. I 427 00:29:20,220 --> 00:29:21,220 didn't want to go up there. 428 00:29:21,740 --> 00:29:23,100 It's a bad energy up there. 429 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,540 Regardless of my unease, Bobby felt it was important to our investigation to 430 00:29:28,540 --> 00:29:29,540 venture upstairs. 431 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:31,040 Yeah, this is it. 432 00:29:32,460 --> 00:29:37,760 So this is, there's a man murdered over in that corner. 433 00:29:38,820 --> 00:29:39,820 Who's here? 434 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:44,400 Who's here? Hello? 435 00:29:45,660 --> 00:29:46,760 Can you talk to me? 436 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:49,960 Oh, there we go. 437 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:52,419 Who's here? 438 00:29:52,420 --> 00:29:53,440 What are you doing here? 439 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:57,360 Talk to me. 440 00:29:57,940 --> 00:29:59,720 He's questioning me. It's a big guy. 441 00:30:02,990 --> 00:30:04,310 Just repeating, what are you doing here? 442 00:30:09,270 --> 00:30:10,370 Should we use the radio? 443 00:30:10,730 --> 00:30:11,730 Yeah. 444 00:30:14,050 --> 00:30:15,630 I'm going to put this radio here. 445 00:30:16,870 --> 00:30:23,670 And the idea is for you to use the words from the radio waves 446 00:30:23,670 --> 00:30:26,830 to talk to it. 447 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,760 The Franks box is a paranormal investigative tool that sweeps random 448 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,660 which allows spirits to communicate by forming sentences using words that are 449 00:30:37,660 --> 00:30:38,660 out there. 450 00:30:38,820 --> 00:30:40,100 Are you standing? 451 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:41,760 Okay. 452 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,360 Is there somebody here with us? 453 00:30:48,180 --> 00:30:49,340 What's your name? 454 00:30:57,550 --> 00:30:58,550 here to investigate? 455 00:31:03,650 --> 00:31:07,650 Have you ever heard of Bell Gunnett? 456 00:31:11,390 --> 00:31:12,390 Yes. 457 00:31:12,910 --> 00:31:15,670 Is Bell Gunnett here? 458 00:31:17,850 --> 00:31:18,850 Yes. 459 00:31:21,270 --> 00:31:24,310 What was the name of your first husband? 460 00:31:50,699 --> 00:31:56,180 Although the Franks box seemed to be responding, it wasn't clear what spirit 461 00:31:56,180 --> 00:31:57,760 trying to communicate with Bobby. 462 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,600 As we headed down to the ground floor, Bobby suddenly was convinced that 463 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,480 presence was with us, so we decided to give the Franks box another go. 464 00:32:14,860 --> 00:32:18,740 Are you first? Let's just start off simply. Are you Belle Gunnett? 465 00:32:30,890 --> 00:32:31,890 Let me ask again. 466 00:32:34,890 --> 00:32:36,210 Because I thought I heard yes. 467 00:32:37,730 --> 00:32:38,990 Bell, is this you? 468 00:32:43,710 --> 00:32:44,710 Bell? 469 00:32:45,770 --> 00:32:49,750 Yes. Was that your body they found at the farmhouse? 470 00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:58,520 That was clear. 471 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,280 Don't toy around with us, Belle. 472 00:33:03,580 --> 00:33:08,680 This is your chance to say what it is that you need to say. Don't mess with 473 00:33:08,700 --> 00:33:09,700 She's smiling. 474 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,180 Belle, do you not want to talk to us? 475 00:33:18,460 --> 00:33:20,480 Do you want us to go? 476 00:33:33,450 --> 00:33:37,550 I think we walked in her footsteps tonight and that that was very important 477 00:33:37,550 --> 00:33:41,810 painting the picture and understanding that this was the place that she went to 478 00:33:41,810 --> 00:33:46,010 to happily spend her murderous booty, if you like. 479 00:33:46,830 --> 00:33:52,350 But I don't think that we're any closer to rewriting the story of Belle Gunness. 480 00:33:52,430 --> 00:33:54,730 I think we've still got a lot of hard work to do. 481 00:33:54,950 --> 00:33:59,850 The evening seemed to be a frustrating disappointment, but later Bobby called 482 00:33:59,850 --> 00:34:01,810 to his room as he'd reviewed the footage. 483 00:34:02,330 --> 00:34:06,470 it seems we were closer to having a conversation with the spirit of Bell 484 00:34:06,470 --> 00:34:07,470 initially thought. 485 00:34:07,710 --> 00:34:10,030 Do you know who we are here to investigate? 486 00:34:12,530 --> 00:34:16,909 Have you ever heard of Bell Gunnett? 487 00:34:22,010 --> 00:34:23,530 Are you Bell Gunnett? 488 00:34:35,709 --> 00:34:39,489 Was that your body they found at the farmhouse? 489 00:34:46,860 --> 00:34:51,300 From everything we have learned about this secretive and vicious murderer, 490 00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:55,080 is now sure the only way we're going to find the spirit of Belle is by 491 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,800 investigating the very farm where she brutally hacked apart the lives of up to 492 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,240 40 men, women, and children. 493 00:35:02,660 --> 00:35:07,800 Suspicions quickly arose that all was not as it should be on the Gunness farm. 494 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:13,480 The heat was on Belle in April of 1908. She was starting to panic. 495 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,420 preparing a way to escape, I think. 496 00:35:21,420 --> 00:35:25,900 To lay the way, Belle began telling anyone who'd listened that hired help 497 00:35:25,900 --> 00:35:30,360 former lover Ray Lamphere was threatening to set fire to her home out 498 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,640 jealousy over Belle's other men. 499 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,980 About 4 .30 the next morning, April 28th, The house erupted in flames. 500 00:35:38,380 --> 00:35:43,680 The bodies of Belle's three children and a headless woman were discovered in the 501 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,640 burnt -out remains of the farmhouse. 502 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:56,360 So this is it. All of this land around here made up a large part of Belle 503 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,460 Gunness' estate, and in fact, where this house is right here. 504 00:36:00,090 --> 00:36:01,350 was where her barn stood. 505 00:36:01,610 --> 00:36:05,810 Now what's significant about the barn, rather gruesomely, is that that's where 506 00:36:05,810 --> 00:36:08,150 she disposed of and cut up the bodies. 507 00:36:08,650 --> 00:36:10,570 Do you want to go and take a look around? Yeah, definitely. 508 00:36:19,490 --> 00:36:21,810 There are other bodies buried here. 509 00:36:22,390 --> 00:36:25,710 And I'm not so sure that I'm not being drawn to this area because this might be 510 00:36:25,710 --> 00:36:26,870 the area that they're drawn to. 511 00:36:36,350 --> 00:36:39,090 Everything is just about where it's at. 512 00:36:39,450 --> 00:36:44,730 The house where she originally stayed at where the fire took place, I think is 513 00:36:44,730 --> 00:36:45,890 this way a little bit more. 514 00:36:46,230 --> 00:36:48,990 I can see image of her. 515 00:36:49,830 --> 00:36:51,150 She was hefty. 516 00:36:51,630 --> 00:36:55,090 Some of these men were smaller than her. 517 00:36:56,530 --> 00:36:58,850 Mousy type of men, you know what I mean? 518 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,820 Not very strong, a little weak -natured, very passive. 519 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,080 She was very strong. I could see her killing in the house and then taking him 520 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,060 over to the shed to hack up and butcher. 521 00:37:11,460 --> 00:37:15,700 This was a slaughterhouse for humans. 522 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:21,160 With the imprint of murder still fresh on the ground, Bobby was sure we were 523 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,040 about to have an eventful evening. 524 00:37:23,540 --> 00:37:27,180 Her eyes just turned a different color. This is my cat as well. 525 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,200 Sometimes they're actually moving. 526 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,320 What can you say about a woman that is such a monster? 527 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:38,160 We were now closer to the spirit of Belle Gunness than we'd been so far on 528 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:39,360 paranormal investigation. 529 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:44,320 Bobby was sure that this was the right location to finally have a conversation 530 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,520 with this infamous serial killer. 531 00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:52,400 In the aftermath of the fire at Belle's farmhouse, three dead children and the 532 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,960 body of a headless woman were found in the smoking remains. 533 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:02,020 The problem with the headless woman that was supposed to be Belle Gunness is 534 00:38:02,020 --> 00:38:07,080 that Belle Gunness was somewhere between 5 '8 and 5 '9 and weighed close to 280 535 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:13,080 pounds. The woman that they found in the fire, she was about 5 '4, 5 '5, and 536 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,060 only weighed about 120 pounds. 537 00:38:15,540 --> 00:38:19,020 This does not look like Belle Gunness. 538 00:38:19,900 --> 00:38:24,900 Speculation is that Belle may have brought a woman in from Chicago a few 539 00:38:24,900 --> 00:38:25,900 before the fire. 540 00:38:26,350 --> 00:38:31,550 had a body double at the plant. The head was never found. 541 00:38:32,070 --> 00:38:34,050 She killed for personal greed. 542 00:38:34,270 --> 00:38:37,090 To cover her tracks, she murdered her children. 543 00:38:37,970 --> 00:38:40,250 And then she faked her own death. 544 00:38:40,810 --> 00:38:43,910 What can you say about a woman that is such a monster? 545 00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:52,530 We had invited the Indiana Ghost Trackers to the sale, and as night fell 546 00:38:52,530 --> 00:38:54,630 the farm, we were ready to begin. 547 00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:01,540 We would like to welcome Bell Gunness to join us. 548 00:39:02,220 --> 00:39:05,980 If any of you could show us a sign of your presence. 549 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,460 We have wind chimes behind us. 550 00:39:10,980 --> 00:39:13,340 If you could move one of the chimes for us. 551 00:39:14,580 --> 00:39:16,000 Let us know that you're here. 552 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:23,140 There's a man standing just about 30 or 40 feet that way. 553 00:39:23,910 --> 00:39:25,730 Thank you for joining us. What's your name? 554 00:39:28,990 --> 00:39:30,270 What's your connection here? 555 00:39:33,530 --> 00:39:34,530 Are you the sheriff? 556 00:39:38,590 --> 00:39:39,730 Another one behind me. 557 00:39:42,850 --> 00:39:43,850 That's Belle. 558 00:39:45,850 --> 00:39:49,330 Belle, if you're here, can you give us a sign of your presence? 559 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,020 She's kind of just skirting around the table. 560 00:39:56,500 --> 00:39:59,380 How did it feel to murder your children, Bill? 561 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:05,200 To take the lives of those poor little innocent... She just said, I gave them 562 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:06,200 God. 563 00:40:07,260 --> 00:40:09,300 How could you stomach what you did to them? 564 00:40:10,180 --> 00:40:12,960 You know, this is not God's will. 565 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,640 You know that as well as we all do. 566 00:40:16,980 --> 00:40:22,520 To take those poor little innocent souls and to murder them in cold blood. 567 00:40:23,310 --> 00:40:24,310 How could you? 568 00:40:28,070 --> 00:40:29,210 You're getting her riled up. 569 00:40:32,010 --> 00:40:34,610 I just got a feeling like she could take you on. 570 00:40:35,650 --> 00:40:36,670 Well, show me, Bill. 571 00:40:39,930 --> 00:40:41,590 You're a bigger woman than I am. 572 00:40:43,950 --> 00:40:45,950 She's standing right on your right side now, Mike. 573 00:40:46,630 --> 00:40:50,710 She's also tracing on your shoulder. 574 00:40:51,530 --> 00:40:57,730 where she would hack and cut off. It was high up on the shoulder, and she's just 575 00:40:57,730 --> 00:40:59,050 tracing with her finger. 576 00:41:00,410 --> 00:41:03,870 Is it true that you fed a lot of your victims to the hogs? 577 00:41:05,490 --> 00:41:06,490 Yes. 578 00:41:08,010 --> 00:41:11,750 Well, poisoning people was sort of a coward's way to off them, don't you 579 00:41:12,010 --> 00:41:13,010 She doesn't like you. 580 00:41:14,130 --> 00:41:16,070 She just stared daggers. 581 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,800 Her eyes just turned a different color. They went darker when she looked at you. 582 00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:23,500 Why, though? 583 00:41:24,740 --> 00:41:25,860 You pose a threat. 584 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:32,300 I can feel her presence there, and I'm not a psychic. I'm not. Do you know what 585 00:41:32,300 --> 00:41:34,540 I mean? But I can feel her standing there. 586 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,020 And touch one of us. 587 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,340 Or make some kind of a noise or a sound. 588 00:41:42,940 --> 00:41:44,540 Or extinguish one of the lamps. 589 00:41:46,410 --> 00:41:48,010 Belle, you could move my compass. 590 00:41:49,930 --> 00:41:51,190 She's just staring you down. 591 00:41:53,070 --> 00:41:54,850 So you're too weak to move it, Belle? 592 00:41:55,110 --> 00:41:56,470 She just called you a bitch. 593 00:41:59,130 --> 00:42:02,190 She looked away in disgust and just said, bitch. 594 00:42:06,790 --> 00:42:09,670 I'm still waiting for you to give us a sign of your presence. 595 00:42:11,650 --> 00:42:14,330 I don't have to tell her anything. 596 00:42:17,100 --> 00:42:18,420 Can you do something here? 597 00:42:19,540 --> 00:42:23,740 So we're starting to wonder, really, how powerful you were. 598 00:42:27,660 --> 00:42:30,040 Those chimes should be easy enough to move. 599 00:42:33,940 --> 00:42:36,540 The torches should be easy enough to put out. 600 00:42:39,620 --> 00:42:43,020 The wind chimes are actually moving. They're just not making any noise. 601 00:42:45,580 --> 00:42:46,940 Were they moving like that before? 602 00:42:47,460 --> 00:42:49,420 I didn't know. Not when we sat down. 603 00:42:50,900 --> 00:42:55,820 I feel like we really need to get some more answers from Belle. I think it 604 00:42:55,820 --> 00:43:00,200 be very convincing. There are some answers to questions that are quite 605 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:01,200 necessary. 606 00:43:01,540 --> 00:43:03,320 Belle, how many folks are out here? 607 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:06,840 More than 40? 608 00:43:09,020 --> 00:43:12,440 There's enough to have my own. 609 00:43:19,210 --> 00:43:20,210 I can't get what she's saying. 610 00:43:21,290 --> 00:43:26,210 And then the number I see after that is 35. 611 00:43:27,230 --> 00:43:29,930 But that was what I was getting as well. 612 00:43:31,730 --> 00:43:38,030 Who's that woman, Bill? Who's the woman that you cut the head off of to, you 613 00:43:38,030 --> 00:43:39,230 know, make it look like you? 614 00:43:41,890 --> 00:43:46,690 The girl had come out to the farm quite by accident. It was very fortunate. 615 00:43:47,820 --> 00:43:49,680 That she came along when she did. 616 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,140 You know, we found her head in the privy pit. 617 00:43:55,340 --> 00:43:56,340 No, you didn't. 618 00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:58,320 Never find it. 619 00:43:59,100 --> 00:44:00,220 Is it in the swamp? 620 00:44:02,420 --> 00:44:04,400 She turned and looked at you when you said that. 621 00:44:05,380 --> 00:44:06,860 Like her head snapped at you. 622 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:10,300 That makes her nervous. 623 00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:13,460 But that was my favorite. 624 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:21,440 Are you afraid now, Belle? 625 00:44:22,700 --> 00:44:23,800 You're moving away? 626 00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:30,260 Have we just had a conversation with this serial killer? If so, has Bobby 627 00:44:30,260 --> 00:44:34,900 uncovered a secret that could finally expose Belle and prove for certain that 628 00:44:34,900 --> 00:44:36,520 she didn't die in the fire? 629 00:44:41,620 --> 00:44:46,120 Hired hand Ray Lamphere was eventually arrested for the fire at the Gunness 630 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:51,970 Farm. Although no one was ever convicted for the murders of up to 40 men, women 631 00:44:51,970 --> 00:44:52,990 and children. 632 00:44:55,130 --> 00:45:01,350 Did Belle Gunness, America's first and most vicious female serial killer, die 633 00:45:01,350 --> 00:45:03,550 the fire alongside her children? 634 00:45:03,770 --> 00:45:07,450 Or did she escape Laporte with her stolen fortune? 635 00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:14,330 Has a conversation with this serial killer just revealed darting new 636 00:45:14,780 --> 00:45:16,960 in a hundred -year -old murder mystery.